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标题: 有在洋人主流公司上班的電腦高手嗎? 想看看有多少擠進主流的高手! [打印本页]

作者: blacksheep 时间: 2009-9-10 04:34:59 标题: 有在洋人主流公司上班的電腦高手嗎? 想看看有多少擠進主流的高手!

都在哪裡高就呢? 工作性質?

[ 本帖最后由 blacksheep 于 2009-9-10 03:37 编辑 ]

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-10 08:20:48

what does 主流 mean? i won't call myself 高手, but i have about 10 years IT experience in NZ, working for Telecom NZ, as an architect

作者: blacksheep 时间: 2009-9-10 10:29:36

哇!! 都做到architect了, 還不算高手?!!

作者: d_tsai 时间: 2009-9-10 11:09:39

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 07:20 发表
what does 主流 mean? i won't call myself 高手, but i have about 10 years IT experience in NZ, working for Telecom NZ, as an architect

您不是做security的嗎??

作者: blacksheep 时间: 2009-9-10 14:38:25

有沒有聚集IT人才的club, 除了交換心得外找工作跳槽也方便??

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-10 14:53:22

我是低手，近来看看增长些见识

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-10 15:46:15

原帖由 d_tsai 于 2009-9-10 10:09 发表

您不是做security的嗎??

security architect :)

作者: missmia 时间: 2009-9-10 15:48:14

我们一直是非主流的。。。

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-10 15:48:58

原帖由 blacksheep 于 2009-9-10 09:29 发表
哇!! 都做到architect了, 還不算高手?!!

IT is a never ending learning journey. I know enough to be able tohandle my day job, but in comparison there are always people that havebeen in IT longer than me and also there are always people that aremore knowledgeable than me in a particular area. I will call my self aguy with reasonable experience in the industry, but probably won't callmyself an expert.

作者: blacksheep 时间: 2009-9-10 16:18:59

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 14:48 发表

IT is a never ending learning journey. I know enough to be able tohandle my day job, but in comparison there are always people that havebeen in IT longer than me and also there are always people t ...

point taken, how long have you been with telecom? and you have always being a security guy?

作者: redo1 时间: 2009-9-10 17:26:10

我是混饭吃的，如果想交流IT技术或者IT生活，来加入我们的群吧，群号83386583.

作者: Venox10111 时间: 2009-9-10 17:35:40

不是我的羊甲

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-10 17:59:25

原帖由 blacksheep 于 2009-9-10 15:18 发表

point taken, how long have you been with telecom? and you have always being a security guy?

Been working in Telecom for about 7 years. I started off as a Microsoft desktop support person for my first IT job. Only started dealing with security since i joined Telecom.

作者: keepower 时间: 2009-9-10 21:17:16

主流和非主流咋分？

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-10 22:05:03

在主流公司做未必是高手，在分流公司做未必是低手。

作者: (-)(-) 时间: 2009-9-10 22:19:05

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 16:59 发表
Been working in Telecom for about 7 years. I started off as a Microsoft desktop support person for my first IT job. Only started dealing with security since i joined Telecom.

What is a good starting point to learn security stuff? e.g. what kind of books, websites, training or jobs to start with.

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-10 22:35:48

原帖由 (-)(-) 于 2009-9-10 21:19 发表

What is a good starting point to learn security stuff? e.g. what kind of books, websites, training or jobs to start with.

I have a book call “Crytography and Network Security, principles and practices" it is very good.

作者: leiz 时间: 2009-9-10 22:40:06

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 14:46 发表

security architect :)

应该很有意思.是computer network security?还是别的什么的?

作者: 复习到天亮 时间: 2009-9-10 23:14:03

低手飘过

作者: la_ka 时间: 2009-9-11 00:06:22 标题: 回复 12# Venox10111 的帖子

好久不见。。。黑羊。。。呵呵。。。

117是高手啊。。。呵呵

作者: 雁阵惊寒 时间: 2009-9-11 00:20:00

我是过来拜见IT主流高手的

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 00:24:25

原帖由 (-)(-) 于 2009-9-10 21:19 发表

What is a good starting point to learn security stuff? e.g. what kind of books, websites, training or jobs to start with.

kind of depends on which part of security interest you the most... and also your intention of learning.. most security jobs on the market are firewall related, so if you are doing it to try to increase your marketability, go and do some firewall certification (checkpoint CCSA or Cisco ASA is a good start). If you are wanting to learn security just for interest sake, then may be start pick up a security book from amazon and go from there... what's your background? if you are coming from programming background you should get into hacking/pen testing... that's the fun part. :)

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 00:25:50

原帖由 leiz 于 2009-9-10 21:40 发表

应该很有意思.是computer network security?还是别的什么的?

yes, i started from mainly network security background. Now i also deal with risk management part of the business, design, vendor management etc.

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 00:27:14

原帖由 雁阵惊寒 于 2009-9-10 23:20 发表
我是过来拜见IT主流高手的

hi 雁阵惊寒 , if i am not wrong i think someone mentioned that you actually play dota? is that true? i can't remember whether they mentioned your name or someone else's name.

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 00:27:52

原帖由 la_ka 于 2009-9-10 23:06 发表
好久不见。。。黑羊。。。呵呵。。。

117是高手啊。。。呵呵

i am just an "old hand". :)

作者: 雁阵惊寒 时间: 2009-9-11 00:31:06

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 23:27 发表

hi 雁阵惊寒 , if i am not wrong i think someone mentioned that you actually play dota? is that true? i can't remember whether they mentioned your name or someone else's name.

没想到我打DOTA这种事都能声名远扬。。。ORZ。。。还传到了IT主流高手的耳朵里~~~

还是DOTA名气大，我沾光了。比如我是菜鸟这件事你应该没有听说？

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 00:37:45

原帖由 雁阵惊寒 于 2009-9-10 23:31 发表

没想到我打DOTA这种事都能声名远扬。。。ORZ。。。还传到了IT主流高手的耳朵里~~~

还是DOTA名气大，我沾光了。比如我是菜鸟这件事你应该没有听说？

someone mentioned that you do play dota and told me may be we should get you to join us sometime. (we play among ourselves through the internet weekly). where about do you play usually? (cyber cafe?).

Do u work in IT too? which field? software developement?

作者: (-)(-) 时间: 2009-9-11 00:51:09

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-10 21:35 发表
I have a book call “Crytography and Network Security, principles and practices" it is very good.

Crytography is fun, I am reading some stuff about that lately. Do you have a pdf version of the book? Awesome!

作者: (-)(-) 时间: 2009-9-11 00:58:12

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 23:24 发表
kind of depends on which part of security interest you the most... and also your intention of learning.. most security jobs on the market are firewall related, so if you are doing it to try to increase your marketability, go and do some firewall certification (checkpoint CCSA or Cisco ASA is a good start). If you are wanting to learn security just for interest sake, then may be start pick up a security book from amazon and go from there... what's your background? if you are coming from programming background you should get into hacking/pen testing... that's the fun part. :)

Thanks for the suggestions. I did programming and system admin before, now mainly on non-functional testing, penetration testing will be one of the future engagements, so it's time for me to do some tough learning and crack some nuts.

作者: 雁阵惊寒 时间: 2009-9-11 01:38:40

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 23:37 发表

someone mentioned that you do play dota and told me may be we should get you to join us sometime. (we play among ourselves through the internet weekly). where about do you play usually? (cyber caf ...

呵呵我之前和一帮人在家打过几次LAN，不过一般都是在GARENA。前段时间BF回国了我就天天打。。现在分手了又可以打了。。我和IT没关系啦。。我是护士~~在奥克兰医院。。

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-11 08:09:48

我在117wik 的“反面”
我是做development 的architect (专攻SOA, integration, middleware方面)，we make trouble for infrastructure guys like 117wik :)

不知道怎么才算主流反正我从来不跟同事凑热闹聊rugby 有时候我不懂他们的一些玩笑有时候他们也不懂我的一些玩笑 so what? 工作上的事情交流得清楚明了才是硬道理

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 09:04:18

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-11 07:09 发表
我在117wik 的“反面”
我是做development 的architect (专攻SOA, integration, middleware方面)，we make trouble for infrastructure guys like 117wik :)

不知道怎么才算主流反正我从来不跟同事凑热闹聊rugb ...

same... i almost never hang out with any colleague outside of work, probably been to pub once in the last 10 years with colleague before.. and never been to rugby etc with them either (they did ask initially and gave up at the end). :P

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-11 09:18:27

原帖由 雁阵惊寒 于 2009-9-11 00:38 发表

呵呵我之前和一帮人在家打过几次LAN，不过一般都是在GARENA。前段时间BF回国了我就天天打。。现在分手了又可以打了。。我和IT没关系啦。。我是护士~~在奥克兰医院。。

莫非就是HydrA????

作者: 向后看的鱼 时间: 2009-9-11 15:51:34

真热闹这帖子.... 我是IT但是是打杂的...

作者: duncan_kai 时间: 2009-9-11 17:02:48

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 08:04 发表

same... i almost never hang out with any colleague outside of work, probably been to pub once in the last 10 years with colleague before.. and never been to rugby etc with them either (they did as ...

这位老兄是gen-i的?还是telecom本部的?以你的工作经验+职位,估计15-20万年薪了.算是IT强人了................

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 17:22:43

原帖由 duncan_kai 于 2009-9-11 16:02 发表

这位老兄是gen-i的?还是telecom本部的?以你的工作经验+职位,估计15-20万年薪了.算是IT强人了................

i haven't seen any job in NZ that actually pay more than 12万 yet (unless it's a mid tier management role). I am now part of telecom (used to be in a team that's part of gen-i). Let me know if there are any job that pay 15-20万年薪 and i will go for it. :)

most SDM - operational manager type roles in NZ only pay about 80-100k. Sales related roles are different obviously.

[ 本帖最后由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 16:24 编辑 ]

作者: chao 时间: 2009-9-11 17:54:20

能在 IT 待 10 + 年很強...
請問 117 幾歲了 ?

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-11 17:57:59

原帖由 chao 于 2009-9-11 16:54 发表
能在 IT 待 10 + 年很強...
請問 117 幾歲了 ?

33 yo. I knows quite a few that have been working in IT for more than 10 years too, longer doesn't mean more skillful though. (i know people that work as a helpdesk for 10 years). :)

作者: leiz 时间: 2009-9-12 11:43:22

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 16:22 发表

i haven't seen any job in NZ that actually pay more than 12万 yet (unless it's a mid tier management role). I am now part of telecom (used to be in a team that's part of gen-i). Let me know if the ...

guess you don't know the market good enough. I have seen developers get paid more than 120K a year. Development managers get more than 200K a year. So don't be surprised if someone offers you that much amount of money. :P

作者: 狂奔的蜗牛!!! 时间: 2009-9-12 12:19:22

IT赚得好多啊，改行学IT算了。

作者: duncan_kai 时间: 2009-9-12 12:59:48

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 16:22 发表

i haven't seen any job in NZ that actually pay more than 12万 yet (unless it's a mid tier management role). I am now part of telecom (used to be in a team that's part of gen-i). Let me know if the ...

如果真是这样的话,看来telecom NZ这样的公司确实给的不是很高,做一个安全方面的架构师拿不到15万的话..........................................

作者: 雁阵惊寒 时间: 2009-9-12 15:23:52

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-11 08:18 发表

莫非就是HydrA????

不是。我很菜，所以一般只和认识的人打。

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-12 18:13:41

原帖由 leiz 于 2009-9-12 10:43 发表

guess you don't know the market good enough. I have seen developers get paid more than 120K a year. Development managers get more than 200K a year. So don't be surprised if someone offers you that ...

i have been involve with hiring and interview (helping other managers) for more than 5 years and i was an operation manager before too, and to be honest, i seriously don't see many that's on that sort of money. I know enough people that work in IT and no one that came across are on more than 120k.

Every so often i do see in Hays salary survey and claims that for a particular role the average salary is so and so, and i have been in IT for a reasonable long time, and i haven't came across any jobs that willing to pay that much (job with sales focus is always a different story though).

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-12 18:15:14

原帖由 duncan_kai 于 2009-9-12 11:59 发表

如果真是这样的话,看来telecom NZ这样的公司确实给的不是很高,做一个安全方面的架构师拿不到15万的话..........................................

may be it's because i am not good enough. :)

may be i should consider changing job to become a software developer... u guys make it sounds like every developer is earning 120k-150k easily.

作者: (-)(-) 时间: 2009-9-12 21:12:55

Is 85K good enough for a senior java developer?

作者: scottiedave 时间: 2009-9-12 21:57:37

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作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-12 22:21:22

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-12 17:15 发表

may be it's because i am not good enough. :)

may be i should consider changing job to become a software developer... u guys make it sounds like every developer is earning 120k-150k easily.

纯粹的developer (不做任何pre-sale, team-leading, high-level design ...etc) 连达到100K 都难
permanent 的technical position 的确很难高过120K-150K （除非你自己是老板之一但那时候你就不想自己工资太高因为要避税了）
contractor 的话，究竟能有多少收入就天知道了...

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-12 22:24:10

原帖由 (-)(-) 于 2009-9-12 20:12 发表
Is 85K good enough for a senior java developer?

I'd say not enough for a really good one (but under the current economy, you might get some good ones moving off contracting market to take a permanent job and they might just take the offer to take it easy for a while, wait for the market to come back up)

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-12 22:26:36

原帖由 scottiedave 于 2009-9-12 20:57 发表

我对这方面也很有兴趣，可以介绍一下你们平时的工作吗？要成功被应聘应该具备什么条件？平时接触商业方面的东西多吗？

你指的“这方面” 是指泛意上的software architect 的工作呢还是指 SOA, EAI, middleware 这个技术方面？

作者: leiz 时间: 2009-9-12 23:26:55

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-12 17:15 发表

may be it's because i am not good enough. :)

may be i should consider changing job to become a software developer... u guys make it sounds like every developer is earning 120k-150k easily.

Not every developer can get that much money. The positions that I have seen are from developer to developer manager. I have to say that it really depends on the business and the size of the company. There are a lot of people earning shit load of money and there are even more people earning shit amount. It makes the average low. And you have not seen != it does not exist.

[ 本帖最后由 leiz 于 2009-9-12 22:28 编辑 ]

作者: marilyn_monroe 时间: 2009-9-13 10:05:00

In NZ, permanent employees who work in IT but want package > 200k, the place to go is Sydney, London, or US.One cousin of mine there who has 7 years of working experience, he had been working for a company, which paid him 160k per annum, but was sacked after 1.5 years cos of economy downturn.

NZ pay is quite low. 90% companies are SOHO and SME, how do we expect they have deep pocket for staff pay?My boss is a kiwi, who has been working in IT since 1990, I'm pretty sure his pay is above 150k. If he goes for a small company, don't think they can afford him.

Here, IT Contractors do get higher pay but not stable at all. The contractors working for us, we're paying their company around $400/hour.

作者: scottiedave 时间: 2009-9-13 19:35:12

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作者: kkiidd 时间: 2009-9-13 19:48:10

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作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-13 21:31:10

原帖由 scottiedave 于 2009-9-13 18:35 发表

是SOA，EAI和middleware这方面的，可以介绍一下吗？

这个领域涉及的东西算挺多的从广义来说 anything between front-end business application and back-end database is middleware, .NET 和 JavaEE 都是 middleware framework, 但算是比较low level, 一般不会从这样的low level 建立integration solution, 每个vendor 都会一些建立在这些low level framework 上的产品，例如microsoft 有BizTalk, IBM有WebSphere 平台上一整套SOA 产品（还有配套的硬件呢!), Oracle 有SOA suite 和因为买了BEA就还多了weblogic 上的一套东西（而且weblogic 的比oracle 自己的还强）... etc
我们的工作就是用这些high level 的工具架设企业需要的integration，有时候有些gap 会用到比如一个custom .net component 或者EJB 来补充，也就是说我们有时候也要fall back 到low level 的framework
传统上的EAI 有很多弊端（你可以自己google 一下，我就不多说了), 现在的潮流是SOA (其实单SOA 是不够的，要EDA来补充, 网上也有很多这方面的资料你可以查)
上面提到的这些vendor product 都是根据SOA 原理设计和为SOA 服务的;
职位的要求就是对SOA 理念要透彻, 这里面就涉及了不少具体技术性的东西例如SOAP, WS-*, XML\Schema, XSLT, messaging...etc （SOA远远大于仅仅web services)，客户很多时候还会提出很多BPM的要求因为SOA/ESB对于business 的真正价值体现是在于BPM（business people don't really care WTF is SOA）, 当然还要对middleware framework和这些vendor产品要熟悉，还有一个很重要的方面就是学习不熟悉的产品/平台要快，因为integration 通常及涉及新的系统也更多的涉及旧的legacy systems, 例如你从来没见过AS400 是什么样子的现在客户要他这套新的网上交易系统跟他用了10年的AS400 交换信息你就得马上学习，而且每个project 涉及的系统都有不同.
如果上面说的是“硬能力”的话，还需要的“软能力”就是跟客户的交流了，因为integration 从定义上就需要跟很多不同的party 打交道，不光是你自己的客户，还有你客户的客户，你客户的其他vendor/supplier, integration 就是要integrate 他们各自本来独立的系统而形成完整的business process.
我自己是属于technical architect 所以我直接跟business people 打交道的场合还算少一点(还是有的) 更多的是跟客户方的architect/project manager 开会做demo, training ...etc; 对内就是跟自己team 里的developer 交流了，这其实也是我觉得工作上最有压力的部分，因为要保持自己在技术上的优势是需要做很多home work 的（保持优势才能让人信服，例如有一次 team 里一个developer 给出一个task 的estimate 说要3周，我跟PM说那是bullshit 我下午给你做一个结果那天下班前我就把那个component给写了出来)，做design 的时候压力也大怕考虑不周(通过多跟客户交流反馈可以减少这方面的压力）.

我现在的工作单位是属于consulting的公司，上面说的是在这个背景下的，以前在大企业的in-house team也做过，情况会有点不同（更多politics :) )
不知道写的这些对你会有多少实际帮助，我想end of the day, 最重要的还是自我学习自我批评完善. 还有一本书想推荐给你如果你真想在这方面有所发展，"enterprise integration patterns"
http://www.amazon.com/Enterprise-Integration-Patterns-Designing-Deploying/dp/0321200683
算是我的镇桌之宝吧 :)

作者: milan24 时间: 2009-9-13 22:42:32 标题: 回复 44# 117wik 的帖子

hi 117wik, within telecom, whats the salary range telecom offering for a sys admin, who graduate from uni and have three years work experience.

作者: scottiedave 时间: 2009-9-14 00:25:04

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作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-14 08:56:45

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-13 20:31 发表

这个领域涉及的东西算挺多的从广义来说 anything between front-end business application and back-end database is middleware, .NET 和 JavaEE 都是 middleware framework, 但算是比较low level, 一般不会从这 ...

我们之前就是用Oracle SOA Suite，作为Oracle的pilot project, 但是缺乏support,后来就不了了之。
在选product之前一定要看看有多少人在用，一直打电话找support是一件很痛苦的事。

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-14 10:54:58

原帖由 milan24 于 2009-9-13 21:42 发表
hi 117wik, within telecom, whats the salary range telecom offering for a sys admin, who graduate from uni and have three years work experience.

It's kind of role/experience dependent. I am guessing between 55k - 70k.

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-14 18:43:18

原帖由 scottiedave 于 2009-9-13 23:25 发表

很详细啊，谢谢啊，请问你是读compsci还是info的？一般business analyst的工作主要是什么？

我原来是读electrical & electronic engineering (俗称double E) 后来补读了compsci 的graduate diploma;
BA的工作看你是在什么公司是在IT consulting firm里的话基本就是当business people跟techie 之间的中间人跟“翻译”

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-14 18:46:48

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-14 07:56 发表

我们之前就是用Oracle SOA Suite，作为Oracle的pilot project, 但是缺乏support,后来就不了了之。
在选product之前一定要看看有多少人在用，一直打电话找support是一件很痛苦的事。

oracle 本身的support 就不错啊（澳洲的support centre 里还很多中国人呢 NZ 的SR 都是由澳洲处理）

作者: 117wik 时间: 2009-9-14 19:29:25

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-14 17:43 发表

我原来是读electrical & electronic engineering (俗称double E) ...

what a coincidence, when did you graduate? I did E&E from Auckland uni too. :)

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-14 20:09:29

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-14 18:29 发表

what a coincidence, when did you graduate? I did E&E from Auckland uni too. :)

i was there in 2001 but didn't quite finish the engineering degree...digital circuits and low level C coding were enough to get me really interested in programming...so I jumped ship and finished compsci at the end of 2002 (was doing post-grad in 2003 when i found my first job as a contractor, never got to finish that either up till today)

so I can't call myself an engineer :)

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-15 08:36:24

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-14 17:46 发表

oracle 本身的support 就不错啊（澳洲的support centre 里还很多中国人呢 NZ 的SR 都是由澳洲处理）

嗯，但是我们当时用SOA Suite来做比较重要的东西，后来出了一个bug，每天澳洲那边都给我们打电话support要把bug fix好，后来有连出了几个hotfix，但是都是不行，apply patch后某些deployed BPEL就会不见了。。。而且不是非常Popular，网上的资源就更少了，公司知道这事后就再也没有继续用下去了。

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-15 18:36:14

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-15 07:36 发表

嗯，但是我们当时用SOA Suite来做比较重要的东西，后来出了一个bug，每天澳洲那边都给我们打电话support要把bug fix好，后来有连出了几个hotfix，但是都是不行，apply patch后某些deployed BPEL就会不见了。。。而 ...

10g on OC4J has a lot left to desire
试试新的11g 吧, oracle 已经算是放弃OC4J 了, 11g 完全采用weblogic 做平台, weblogic 和jboss 可以算是javaEE 的双雄吧他们认第二就没人敢认第一了.

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-15 18:40:15

oracle 的东西不是网上资料少而是资料都在metalink 里 google 搜不进去 (跟MSDN 不同）

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-15 20:37:00

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-15 17:40 发表
oracle 的东西不是网上资料少而是资料都在metalink 里 google 搜不进去 (跟MSDN 不同）

我们也有进metalink，那里都是正规的documentation, 我们需要的是实际工作中遇到问题的讨论，当时肯能不是很popular上去oracle forum也很少有跟我们相关的问题和处境。

作者: hopeman 时间: 2009-9-15 20:39:51

洗碗低手飘过!

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-15 22:28:10

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-15 19:37 发表

我们也有进metalink，那里都是正规的documentation, 我们需要的是实际工作中遇到问题的讨论，当时肯能不是很popular上去oracle forum也很少有跟我们相关的问题和处境。

嗯其实metalink 里除了正规文档还有很多knowledge base 不过关键是他们的搜索功能太差从metalink 升级到metalink2 到metalink3 都没解决现在新的myoraclesupport.com 似乎好了很多基本能找到相关的资料尤其是对于IT operations来说。

其实我觉得oracle 的产品质量来说并不就比微软的好但服务的确不错我也做过不少BizTalk 的东西, try log a call with microsoft, i can only wish you luck, mate. 很多时候网上的确可以查到一些solution 但不是官方确认的东西你敢直接往production里塞吗？可能不单只坏了事还void了官方的support

不过话说回来让我从soa suite 10g 和 biztalk 2006里挑我肯定选biztalk （不过很少公司会有这样选择的机会 MS 的shop 99%不会用soa suite, oracle/java 的shop 也99%不会用biztalk)

作者: ybbest 时间: 2009-9-16 00:00:45 标题: 回复 68# 好事之徒的帖子

I thought Datacom should have this capability.

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-16 09:00:20

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-15 21:28 发表

嗯其实metalink 里除了正规文档还有很多knowledge base 不过关键是他们的搜索功能太差从metalink 升级到metalink2 到metalink3 都没解决现在新的myoraclesupport.com 似乎好了很多基本能找到相关的资料尤其是 ...

如果是Biztalk就不同一回事了，首先在development stage你遇到的问题90%你都可以在网上查到，就算是要找microsoft也不是有大问题，之前请了一个consultant展示biztalk给我们看，然后出了一个bug, sleeping instances not being re-activated, 后来microsoft立刻给我们hot fix。

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-16 20:25:01

原帖由 ybbest 于 2009-9-15 23:00 发表
I thought Datacom should have this capability.

我前面指的是想做project 的客户；
anyway, datacom 有些oracle DBA的resource oracle的其他方面就不敢恭维了我们前段时间就在一个政府机构的大project上打败了datacom和gen-i 拿到合约;
就算是biztalk 的skill 他们也不怎么样花了很长时间都没能帮一个大客户架好infrastructure 更别说development了（至少一年多前我跟他们还有点接触的时候是这样，也许现在有改进就不知道了）

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-16 20:31:20

原帖由 ybbest 于 2009-9-15 23:00 发表
I thought Datacom should have this capability.

No, at that time we couldn't find anyone in NZ that is familiar with Oracle SOA, except a guy from HP, he helped us on that project and later on got hired by Oracle.

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-16 20:34:45

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-16 08:00 发表

如果是Biztalk就不同一回事了，首先在development stage你遇到的问题90%你都可以在网上查到，就算是要找microsoft也不是有大问题，之前请了一个consultant展示biztalk给我们看，然后出了一个bug, sleeping instanc ...

Biztalk 的确是要比soa suite 10g 还成熟
development 的环境也肯定是visual studio 比shitty jDeveloper 还好不知道几倍
但很多时候 technical merits 并不是最大的决定因素有时候我也真弄不明白一些CIO/CTO 之流是怎么想的... 题外话了...

作者: 好事之徒 时间: 2009-9-16 20:35:44

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-16 19:31 发表

No, at that time we couldn't find anyone in NZ that is familiar with Oracle SOA, except a guy from HP, he helped us on that project and later on got hired by Oracle.

你们没找到我们...

oracle 在本地也有几个懂的但他们一般不会整个project接来做他们想做的是打一枪换一个地方

[ 本帖最后由好事之徒于 2009-9-16 19:41 编辑 ]

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-16 20:43:11

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-16 19:34 发表

Biztalk 的确是要比soa suite 10g 还成熟
development 的环境也肯定是visual studio 比shitty jDeveloper 还好不知道几倍
但很多时候 technical merits 并不是最大的决定因素有时候我也真弄不明白一些CIO/CTO 之 ...

LOL, I have had enough of Jdeveloper, such a shit tool

作者: baikal 时间: 2009-9-16 23:55:19

高手遍地都是

作者: Joy-Peace 时间: 2009-9-17 22:11:58

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-10 16:59 发表

Been working in Telecom for about 7 years. I started off as a Microsoft desktop support person for my first IT job. Only started dealing with security since i joined Telecom.

Hi 117wik, may I ask how you changed your career path from a desktop support to your current position? Your experiences would be a great inspiration to me. I've been working for a governmentorganization as a desktop support for a couple years after I graduated from AU with a Computer Science degree. I kind of feel I'm getting lazier and lazier and stuck in my current job, could not find a way out.

作者: 胡思≮乱想 时间: 2009-9-17 22:42:37

欢迎玩dota的和IT的人到PCSNAK.COM...:P

目前在SKYTV 管理网站...不算主流

作者: hsac 时间: 2009-9-18 00:06:29

Nobody here talks about SAP Netweaver development.  Say if you have mid-level java development experence and good communication skills,  willing to learn.... you can  jump to "SAP Netweaver development consultant" and get well paid -  may start from 70-80K.

With couple of years hands on / project experence, your salary can goes up to 120K - 150K.  Or you could have heck of opportunity in Oz, UK, US

Never heard about Netweaver?  go and vist http://www.sdn.sap.com

[ 本帖最后由 hsac 于 2009-9-18 20:17 编辑 ]

作者: variable 时间: 2009-9-18 07:21:32

原帖由 hsac 于 2009-9-17 23:06 发表
Nobody here talks about SAP Netweaver development. Say if you have mid-level java development experence and good communication skills, willing to learn.... you can jump to "SAP Netweaver developm ...

are you talking about monthly salary or yearly?

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