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[工作] 大家有加入KIWISAVER 吗 给我点建议~ [复制链接]

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31#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:11:49 |只看该作者 微信分享
I would prefer the suparannuation package.

In Aussie it is even better, the employer would contribute up to 17% of the salary...
A kiwifruit a day, keep the doctors away~

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32#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:18:35 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 smiles 于 2009-7-21 14:11 发表
I would prefer the suparannuation package.

In Aussie it is even better, the employer would contribute up to 17% of the salary...



那17%也是员工自己的钱吧。Company就算不contribute, 这17%也是应该给你的。
Gary Lin
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33#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:18:53 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 smiles 于 2009-7-21 14:11 发表
I would prefer the suparannuation package.

In Aussie it is even better, the employer would contribute up to 17% of the salary...


yes that is really good.
所有的伟大事件,都起源于微不足道的一件小事。人生充满了感叹号和省略号..........

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34#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:21:28 |只看该作者 微信分享
我觉得还是大部分的人没有加入吧

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35#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:26:30 |只看该作者 微信分享
i joined from beginning. .

i contribute 8%.

it used to be 4% into kiwisaver, 4% into company's scheme.
Then company put 4% into kiwisaver, 4% * 66.67% into company's scheem.
then Government put 1040 into kiwisaver.
The company's scheme can be taken out any time i leave the company.

From this year things changed
I contribute 2% into KS, 6% into company's scheme
then company put 2% and 4% into KS/ company's scheme
then government put 1040.

I am lazy to do any other investment. And other investment can lose too.
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36#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:31:35 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 阿海 于 2009-7-21 14:08 发表


Well you don't know how Tax Liens work so I understand.

$1040+interest+compounding is not a lot of money when I'm 65.


I think you may get this from Richmastery, but you know Richmastery has been put into liquidation and here is comments from Gilligan Rowe who used be to heavily involve Richmastery:



GRA
’S VIEW OF TAX LIENS

Recently there has been some media coverage ofinvestment in US based tax liens. In short the investments involvebuying debts off US City Authorities that arise when property ownersfall into arrears in paying their property taxes. Although laws varyState by State in general these unpaid taxes end up as priority secureddebts against the property and often the City Authorities auction themin order to obtain funding. Some investors in the US are attracted bythe relatively high rates of interest paid by these tax liens. RecentlyI have been asked by a number of clients to comment on my view of thecommerciality of such investments for NZ investors.

In summary I do not see a US tax lien as anattractive investment proposition for a New Zealand resident investor.Although the returns can appear attractively high, exposure to foreignexchange risk and the disproportionately high compliance costs meanthat I think that our clients are better off looking closer to home.

To expand further, my primary concerns with tax liens investments are:

§ The investment,which requires you to buy a debt that is denominated in US dollars,means that you are exposed to foreign exchange risks. The kiwi dollarrecently hit a six year low against the US dollar so I don’t think thisis an opportune time to be buying US dollar assets. If the US dollarweakens relative to the kiwi dollar (i.e. the kiwi dollar is worthmore) after acquiring the tax lien investment, your asset (moneyinvested in the US) immediately devalues. Although you might considerhedging a solution, we find the cost of hedging significantly erodesthe return.

§ Once you are dealingwith two tax jurisdictions you are immediately exposed to highercompliance costs. This is amplified in the case of tax liens by thefact that American tax can be complex and that there are differentState and Federal Laws. Further, the nature of the investment itself,which would be classed as a financial arrangement for tax purposes inNew Zealand, mean that the work involved is not straight forward. Forexample, the cost of compliance in the US could be circa US$500-$800and in New Zealand circa NZ$500 meaning total costs of circa NZ$1,500.Once again for a large scale investor this would be a proportionatecost that would be acceptable. However, it ends up beingdisproportionately high for lower scale investors. In particular,compliance with the accrual rules in New Zealand is costly for thesmaller investor.

§ As buying a debt isa “financial arrangement” under New Zealand tax law you need to accountfor exchange movements in NZ tax returns. This means if the NZ dollarweakens and you end up with an exchange gain at balance date, you willhave tax to pay even though you haven’t crystallised the gain (ie youhave tax to pay with no cash profit to help you pay it). There are deminimis rules whereby foreign exchange gains do not need to be broughtto account until realisation but these only apply to individuals incertain circumstances.

§ The risk of usingthe wrong structure across two different tax jurisdictions is high andthe consequences are severe in that you end up with double taxation andlosses being locked up.

§ As the laws inrelation to tax liens vary State by State, the risk of ending up with aworthless investment is too high to stomach. For example, there can beconditions that need to be fulfilled to protect your rights under thelien and if they are not fulfilled the lien can be worthless. Similarlyaccording to commentary by the likes of Wikipedia, if the delinquenttaxpayer is declared bankrupt, a bankruptcy court may lower theinterest rate to be paid or discharge part or all of the lien againleaving the lien worthless.

§ Often theopportunity to acquire the property at a severely discounted price istouted as one of the opportunities available. However, to ensure thatyou do not end up with a worthless piece of swamp land covered on toxicwaste, research needs to be carried out which is going to be difficultfor any NZ investor. Furthermore, you need to be careful of the varioustypes of Deeds that apply to properties. For example, there are socalled quitclaim deeds which are not insurable titles. You can also endup inheriting a property’s shortfall, for example, environmental issueswhich then have to be remedied at the investor’s cost.

We accept that there are potentially good returns intax deed deals, but you need to take due diligence seriously andunderstand fully:

i. The area you are investing in (ie job security, population growth etc).

ii. The nature of the asset (with the complexities of American law across the top e.g. uninsurable ‘quitclaim’ titles).

iii. You may end up with expensive litigation and travel costs defending your investment, if problem arises.

In my view the risks involved for a NZ basedinvestor outweigh the returns for the smaller investor. For this reasonI am encouraging my clients to keep their money closer to home wherethey can keep a better eye on it. With so much cash flow positiveproperty back in the market and no exchange risks, – we ask is it worththe risk to look so far offshore?


Yours faithfully
For Gilligan Rowe & Associates Ltd





Matthew Gilligan
Director

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37#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:37:56 |只看该作者 微信分享
to angry 蜗牛

your points are all right, but the return rate is not.

Only if you are 60-65, then the return can be very very hight. .

if you are around 30, earn 50K, put 2%, company put 2%, government put 1000, and salary remains the same for 35 years (for easy calcuation), discount rate/ market rate @3%

the future amount will be 186K. The return is 8%. 5% higher than market rate which is very good, but cannot be 100%.

by the same way, you can calcuate that if a person has to stay in KS for 30/25/20/15/10/5 years, the return will be 9%/ 11%/13%/ 17%/ 26%/ 62%.

please be advised the above calculation assumes the market rate is only 3%.

Hope this helps. It will not make you a fortune, but it is relatively good.

[ 本帖最后由 love_3_month 于 2009-7-21 14:39 编辑 ]
所有的伟大事件,都起源于微不足道的一件小事。人生充满了感叹号和省略号..........

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38#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 15:42:48 |只看该作者 微信分享
Lol I cant believe you have been fooled by Matthew Gilligan....

This is the same tax account who Richmastery originally recommended for the tax lien course, but Mr Gilligan decided not to attend the course to learn about the system...

Just to keep it short. Mr Gilligan offered tax advice on an investment vehicle he never bothered to learn about, then decided to offer his $5000 service to all off Gilligan Associates clients.

Did you know Mr Gilligan was forced to sell his $9million parnel home due to failed property investments? So obvisously he needed the extra cash right?

Naturally Phil Jones got pissed off, and he fired Mr Gilligan, and teamed up with www.wiseadvice.co.nz

Richmastery is still alive and kicking, go read http://www.richmastery.com/blog/post.aspx?beid=2919&id=9114

Get your facts right mate.
Gary Lin
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39#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:12:29 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 阿海 于 2009-7-21 14:42 发表
Lol I cant believe you have been fooled by Matthew Gilligan....

This is the same tax account who Richmastery originally recommended for the tax lien course, but Mr Gilligan decided not to attend th ...


I receive an email from landlords.co.nz which told me Richmastery is put into liquidation. Even Phil Jones still argue about that but no doubt his company is running down.

I have no interest on fight between Matthew Gilligan and Phil Jones but Gilligan's advice is quite sound and should bear in mind if you invest in tax liens.

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40#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:15:56 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 Lease 于 2009-7-21 12:55 发表


Do you know compound interest? If you input $5,000 a year, assume only 3% interest rate, 40 years later you'll get more than $400k rather than only $200k.

Do you understand investment portfolio ...


好像就只有你一个人懂得FINANCE....

你把钱放那里30年不能拿出来, 你损失的是liquidity...

而且最根本的问题就是你确认你能活到65岁?

这个是没有存钱习惯和没有投资意识,或者快到65岁的人才加入的.

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41#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:22:43 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 十分爱 于 2009-7-21 15:15 发表


好像就只有你一个人懂得FINANCE....

你把钱放那里30年不能拿出来, 你损失的是liquidity...

而且最根本的问题就是你确认你能活到65岁?

这个是没有存钱习惯和没有投资意识,或者快到65岁的人才加入的.


我没有象你所说的那么骄傲,我是说你的投资组合里面应该有一部分储蓄, 而如果你要储蓄, KIWISAVER是个很好的选择.如果你还很年轻,那你的储蓄额比较低, 就象前面有个例子, 5W年薪,2%放入KIWISAVER, 一年也就放1千块钱, 你难道就那么在乎这1千块钱的liquidity吗? 

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42#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:24:06 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 Lease 于 2009-7-21 15:12 发表


I receive an email from landlords.co.nz which told me Richmastery is put into liquidation. Even Phil Jones still argue about that but no doubt his company is running down.

I have no interest on ...



Have you talked and met the likes of Ron Hoy Fong, Tina Chan, and many of Richmastery's graduates?

If you have, then you will believe in Phil Jones as much as I do.
Gary Lin
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43#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:28:56 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 阿海 于 2009-7-21 15:24 发表



Have you talked and met the likes of Ron Hoy Fong, Tina Chan, and many of Richmastery's graduates?

If you have, then you will believe in Phil Jones as much as I do.


Surely I met Ron Hoy Fong and Tina Chan. They are successful ones. But many more Richmastery's graduates have failed their investments.

I'm not here to argue with you but discuss the return on investment(ROI). In terms of ROI, KiwiSaver is extremely good one.

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44#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:36:08 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 Lease 于 2009-7-21 15:22 发表


我没有象你所说的那么骄傲,我是说你的投资组合里面应该有一部分储蓄, 而如果你要储蓄, KIWISAVER是个很好的选择.如果你还很年轻,那你的储蓄额比较低, 就象前面有个例子, 5W年薪,2%放入 ...



总体来说KIWI SAVER是好的。

因为国家有KS了,以后退休的人就有退休金不用过于依赖国家的待遇。

一年1000的确很少,但总好过很多人连一分钱都不投资啦。

在这文章发表过的几位兄弟,投资不投资在KS就看你们吧,没谁对谁错的,个人选择。

支持KS
Gary Lin
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45#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:51:43 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 Lease 于 2009-7-21 15:28 发表


Surely I met Ron Hoy Fong and Tina Chan. They are successful ones. But many more Richmastery's graduates have failed their investments.

I'm not here to argue with you but discuss the return on  ...


Ron 和Tina成功也因为他们有desire, definite goal, persistence。Ron好像并没有参加mentoring。

我个人喜欢有这些优点的生意:
1)现金流/cash flow
2) 金钱/时间的杠杆,money/time leverage
3) 增值 capital appreciation
4) 透视度 visibility
5) 控制度 control

我个人不加入KS就是KS没有以上4种我要的优点,所以股票/货币我也不大喜欢。(个人对货币没研究)
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46#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:52:13 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 阿海 于 2009-7-21 15:36 发表



总体来说KIWI SAVER是好的。

因为国家有KS了,以后退休的人就有退休金不用过于依赖国家的待遇。

一年1000的确很少,但总好过很多人连一分钱都不投资啦。

在这文章发表过的几位兄弟,投资不投资在KS就 ...


很赞同, 但是我还是觉得65岁才可以取出来,而且不像其他国家如果永久离开,

比如失业,移民就可以提早拿出来,这些本来就存在很大不完善的地方.

65岁,本来就是一个很大的风险. 我宁愿每年拿着这$1000去投资也好,

去旅游也好, 趁年青多做其他尝试.

还有KS并不适合以后不打算呆在NZ的人的.

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47#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 16:56:37 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 十分爱 于 2009-7-21 15:52 发表


很赞同, 但是我还是觉得65岁才可以取出来,而且不像其他国家如果永久离开,

比如失业,移民就可以提早拿出来,这些本来就存在很大不完善的地方.

65岁,本来就是一个很大的风险. 我宁愿每年拿着这$1000去投资也好 ...



哎。。。Kiwi saver成立的目的就是鼓励人民多存款,所以65岁才可以拿出来其实也是因为很多人不能理财啊。

现在很多人都喜欢用credit card, hire purchase, 基本上都月光族的。 那如果他们在kiwi saver里的钱能随时拿出来,那他们不花了才怪啊。。。
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48#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 17:16:36 |只看该作者 微信分享
Interesting topic since Kiwisaver started last year.

Just want to give a bit of my personal opinion on Kiwisaver:

A lot of countries have similar compulsory saving scheme as Kiwisaver (KS), New Zealand is not the first one to introduce, obviously, KS is a good scheme, that is why New Zealand Govt want to introduce.

But under this economy, there are more and more people withdraw from Kiwisaver, "withdraw" here means not opt out, but draw money from Kiwisaver with the qualified criteria. It is not hard at all to withdraw money out of Kiwisaver, as long as you can proof you have met the criteria (I had a couple of cases)

It is always good to have some savings for the raining day. when you urgently need money, you know you have some money there that you are able to draw from. It works for some people who do not have the saving habit. For those want to invest in portfolio, Kiwisaver is not that great. Especially under this economic downturn.

If you salary is barely cover your everyday expenses, they are unlikely to join KS. But if you think you can have some savings, joining KS should be an advantage for you, because it is an indirect pay rise of 6% roughly.  

For those employee who is approaching 65, they are strongly recommended to join KS.

Just some of my thoughts to be considered.

[ 本帖最后由 xijlix94 于 2009-7-21 16:18 编辑 ]

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49#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 17:31:55 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 阿海 于 2009-7-21 15:56 发表



哎。。。Kiwi saver成立的目的就是鼓励人民多存款,所以65岁才可以拿出来其实也是因为很多人不能理财啊。

现在很多人都喜欢用credit card, hire purchase, 基本上都月光族的。 那如果他们在kiwi saver里的钱 ...


所以说KS有很多不完善的地方, LS说的在经济DOWNTURN需要钱的时候拿不回来.

其实一些国家地方有类似的PROGRAM, 可以在一些特殊情况把钱拿出来,

但是有些情况只可以用一次. 比如失业,年收入在一定底线下面,就可以每月拿回之前

付的. 再比如离开这个国家,只可以用一次, 就可以立即提取所有的.

但是需要政府设立专门的机关来监督这些情况的发生.

NZ政府也没有钱了, 当然也不会有这些了.

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50#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 17:35:50 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 十分爱 于 2009-7-21 16:31 发表


所以说KS有很多不完善的地方, LS说的在经济DOWNTURN需要钱的时候拿不回来.

其实一些国家地方有类似的PROGRAM, 可以在一些特殊情况把钱拿出来,

但是有些情况只可以用一次. 比如失业,年收入在一定底线下面,就 ...


I did not say you were able to draw money out of Kiwisaver in economic downturn.

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发表于 2009-7-21 17:39:12 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 xijlix94 于 2009-7-21 16:35 发表


I did not say you were able to draw money out of Kiwisaver in economic downturn.


所以我就说这个就是KS不完善的地方....

所以在经济DOWNTURN的时候很多人才会想方设法少供一些钱.

我是说很多地方类似的PROGRAM都可以啦....

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发表于 2009-7-21 17:53:45 |只看该作者 微信分享
我公司是.我们投2%,老板给3%..................但不会再多.
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发表于 2009-7-21 17:55:05 |只看该作者 微信分享
忘记了.........可是我也没参加.......原因是.我已经买房子了.不能期待能在65岁前把他们拿出来.我宁愿自己去做投资好.
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发表于 2009-7-21 18:57:30 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 love_3_month 于 2009-7-21 14:37 发表
to angry 蜗牛

your points are all right, but the return rate is not.

Only if you are 60-65, then the return can be very very hight. .

if you are around 30, earn 50K, put 2%, company put 2%, ...


We're talking about different things. You work out the future value of $186k in 35 years, then use total return/35 years to get 8% return p.a(average). That's not the way we use.

We use simple every year return on investment: ie each year, you contribute $1000, employer contribute $1000, ignore interest you earn, your principle investment: $1000, your total sum obtained: $2000, return on investment=(2000-1000)/1000=100%.

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55#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 19:34:20 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 Lease 于 2009-7-21 17:57 发表


We're talking about different things. You work out the future value of $186k in 35 years, then use total return/35 years to get 8% return p.a(average). That's not the way we use.

We use simple  ...


看来你都没搞懂年金和投资回报率的问题啊。

你的算法就是,你存来钱,我给你double或者triple,但是要35年后才拿,那能说是100%-200%的回报吗,从第二年起这笔前又不能double 了,当然要吧这个之前这个第一年的回报分摊到35年里面。

之后每一年也是如此。

本来就是一个问题。
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发表于 2009-7-21 22:05:41 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 alanni 于 2009-7-21 18:34 发表


看来你都没搞懂年金和投资回报率的问题啊。

你的算法就是,你存来钱,我给你double或者triple,但是要35年后才拿,那能说是100%-200%的回报吗,从第二年起这笔前又不能double 了,当然要吧这个之前这个第一 ...


你没有明白我讲的意思, 我是说: 每年, 你的投入, 和, 每年你所获得的利润之比. 这样来算, 你给我double或者triple,那回报率自然是100%或者200%.

但我承认如果用FUTURE VALUE来平均的话当然不会有100%,不过我算了一下,5W年薪按2%贡献, 老板2%,政府又是2%,按照3%RATE计算,35年后为189k, ROI=(189k-35k)/35k/35=12.57% p.a, very good return with no risk involved. 

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57#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 22:14:21 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 阿海 于 2009-7-21 11:37 发表


完全赞同!

加入kiwisaver就是把自己的钱给陌生人放到一个基金帮你管。

如果这人是投资高手,他还需要工作帮你管钱吗?!

2007-2009金融风暴,美国的401(k)退休金大概损失了40%。

你放心你把你辛辛苦 ...


能问下阿海同学是做什么的吗?看你的回贴都很有责任心的,要不,我也将我的KIWISAVER停下来,交由你管吧。。

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58#分享本帖地址
发表于 2009-7-21 23:11:17 |只看该作者 微信分享
我不懂投资啊~~

不过,kiwisaver作为一种储蓄来说也没什么不可以。

(但是,我总觉得kiwisaver是给打零工的和没有参加公司养老金制度的人的一种养老保障措施吧。好象政府刚推出它的时候,也是为了让新西兰人养成存钱的习惯。)

至于之后的投资和回报之说,就是各个scheme的那些个公司为了争取fund而大肆宣传,最后搞得好象投资一样。

我觉得参加公司的养老金可能也是差不多吧,但是如果你不在乎一个星期这么20来块钱,再存一个养老金也是无所谓的事,因为这点金额也根本不会影响你在其它方面的投资和回报。

总而言之,养老不能depend on kiwisaver, 但是每星期多存20也不会给你带来什么坏处的,反而,在老的时候,再多给你一笔小小的资金。

全看个人怎么想了。

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发表于 2009-7-22 02:13:19 |只看该作者 微信分享
原帖由 tablets 于 2009-7-21 21:14 发表


能问下阿海同学是做什么的吗?看你的回贴都很有责任心的,要不,我也将我的KIWISAVER停下来,交由你管吧。。



目前我只是个工程师,还在打工呢。。。你的钱还是你自己管吧,有兴趣我可能教你些投资生意知识,和介绍些书给你看。
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发表于 2009-7-22 11:30:06 |只看该作者 微信分享
我反正是不加入。。这么年轻,离65岁还早得很,而且这么多年鬼知道会发生什么事呢,再加上以后的通货膨胀,到时的那点钱,估计最多也就吃几顿饭就没了吧。。。
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