BMW X5 3.0D 和 Lexus RX400h

yellowfishs

最近想入手辆SUV，看上了辆07年的BM X5 3.0 （E70）柴油，8.5万公里；另外还看上了Lexus的RX400h，也是07年的，7万公里。两辆车都是NZ new的，价钱大概差个1w8。

我对这两辆车都不是十分了解，因此想知道一些情况：
1. 保养价格 － 大概就可以，只是想比较下
2. 返修频率
3. 维修价格
4. 如果开个三四年再卖的话，哪个会跌幅少点
5. 两个车有什么通病；还想知道下Lexus的电池寿命大概是多久


如果大家开过或者了解这两辆车的请发表一下见解，先谢谢了

chang824

兩台都不買~~~~~逃 {:8_401:}

yellowfishs

chang824 发表于 2012-6-11 10:33
兩台都不買~~~~~逃

为什么呢？

chang824

yellowfishs 发表于 2012-6-11 10:37
为什么呢？

花5-6萬 買公里數那麼高的車...............暈

爱国爱港

>2. 返修频率
>3. 维修价格
>4. 如果开个三四年再卖的话，哪个会跌幅少点
如果你担心这3个问题，你一定要选凌志

>5. 两个车有什么通病；还想知道下Lexus的电池寿命大概是多久
那你为什么不考虑不带h的呢？LZ不要忘记旧的欧洲柴油引擎也会有问题

zycverne

yellowfishs 发表于 2012-6-11 10:37
为什么呢？

如果有那么多钱的预算，为什么不考虑买一台新车呢，比如highlander，Murano或者CX-9?

ilmaro

实在迫不得已，我只能选LEXUS了。。。。。。

me5272311

LEXUS家用好易点。。。。

bigmoon

有这个钱，为什么不买台2手的新款柴油PRADO呢？不管维修还是保养肯定比这两个便宜。

yellowfishs

zycverne 发表于 2012-6-11 16:29
如果有那么多钱的预算，为什么不考虑买一台新车呢，比如highlander，Murano或者CX-9?

Murano我留意了很久，新款很好看，但是这车掉价很快，开个三四年要亏一半

马自达的车一向不太感冒

yellowfishs

bigmoon 发表于 2012-6-11 21:21
有这个钱，为什么不买台2手的新款柴油PRADO呢？不管维修还是保养肯定比这两个便宜。

因为老婆也会拿来开开，感觉prado不太适合女生的

ilmaro

yellowfishs 发表于 2012-6-11 22:56
因为老婆也会拿来开开，感觉prado不太适合女生的

你给她开，她就适应了。。。。。。

yellowfishs

ilmaro 发表于 2012-6-11 22:58
你给她开，她就适应了。。。。。。

她觉得车太长了不是太喜欢，Highlander也是很长的一款SUV。

其实在看车的时候我们两个都很喜欢新款Murano的，但是价格有点高，而且不知道为什么这车价格跌的很厉害，看看旧款就知道。我看到你之前的回复，感觉上你对Lexus的评价也不是很高，这是什么原因呢？

ad_luke

如果开3-4年再卖
估计只有新款柴油霸道了
优点：保值率高，质量好，性能不错

ilmaro

yellowfishs 发表于 2012-6-12 09:29
她觉得车太长了不是太喜欢，Highlander也是很长的一款SUV。

其实在看车的时候我们两个都很喜欢新款Mur ...

没有一定的轴距，轮距配合底盘，就不存在越野功能。LEXUS是高档舒适型车。

michaelfs

柴油的保值一些吧。

爱国爱港

http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/diesels

Diesels often seem cheaper because the buyer is hypnotised by the apparently low cost of fuel instead of looking at the entire cost of ownership, including road taxes, increased servicing costs and the cost of an expensive engine rebuild that grows ever more likely with every passing kilometre.

There are a few things you should know about diesels:

1) Diesels cost more to buy. In almost every case, new vehicles with diesel engines cost significantly more than the petrol equivalent.

Recently, car buyers have developed an unhealthy attraction to diesels for fuel economy reasons, especially European diesels. You should be aware that, however much you may save in fuel, European cars fitted with diesels have a shocking track record for reliability, and when they break, they break your bank account as well.

2) Diesels are generally noisier than petrol engines, although you may not notice this when you’re inside the car, because diesel-powered cars are often well soundproofed.

3) Diesel engines generally cost much more to service & repair than petrol engines. Diesel engines need to be far stronger than petrol engines. This additional strength translates into additional expense at fix-up time.

4) Diesel is often a lot less per litre than petrol, but diesel-powered vehicles must pay road tax in many countries, which drastically raises the true cost of the fuel.

5) Diesels may not be much more economical for smaller vehicles. Various tests comparing the running costs of a petrol-powered small car versus a diesel-powered small car have concluded that the average driver would take several years at least, merely to get back the extra cost of the diesel engine.

Diesels aren’t all bad: there are two groups that do well from owning diesels: owners of new commercial vehicles and owners of large offroad vehicles. Why?

New commercial vehicles are often covering huge distances and their owners are primarily concerned with keeping running costs as low as possible. Because a new vehicle is under warranty, fuel and servicing are likely to be the biggest costs that commercial owners face. Of these costs, fuel is by far the biggest. If they’re doing big mileages, a well-serviced new diesel can be significantly cheaper to operate, both in terms of fuel costs alone and in terms of overall costs of ownership. Because the vehicle will probably be sold long before the engine needs rebuilding, new owners don’t care about the cost of diesel engine repair. It’s the next guy’s problem.  Lastly, because the warranty will require that the vehicle is regularly serviced, the engine is less likely to give trouble for its first owner.

It’s the person who buys the ageing diesel vehicle off the commercial operator who may be a loser – it’s far more likely to require expensive repairs & far less likely to have a decent guarantee.

Owners of large offroaders with proven engines such as those fitted to the early Nissan Patrols and Toyota Landcruisers are also likely winners.

There’s a rough rule of thumb with automotive diesels that the larger the engine, the more likely it is to be reliable, and vice versa.  Older Nissan Patrol and Toyota Landcruiser engines have been known to do 500,000km without major repairs. Also, there are many rural areas where you simply can’t buy petrol because there are no petrol stations. Most farmers, by comparison, have easy access to diesel.

However, unless you’re buying new or buying a vehicle with a proven service history, you don’t know what the inside of the engine is like. One thing that everyone agrees on is that diesels are often hellishly expensive to fix when they do go wrong. So, there’s a general rule that if you don’t know a diesel’s history, you should avoid it altogether, unless a diesel mechanic tells you otherwise.

The bad news:

You probably think that modern diesels are better than earlier models but you may be wrong. Although many improvements have been made over the years, big, reliable, chugging diesels are rapidly going the way of the dinosaur. The ever-growing need for better fuel economy, less pollution and greater performance has meant that diesel engines have been pushed beyond their limits by over-eager vehicle manufacturers.

Traditional diesel engines were heavily built and rarely worked very hard. Because they rarely worked very hard, the engine lasted a long time.

By comparison, most modern diesels have turbochargers – giant air pumps – pushing pressurised air through them to make the engine work at least a quarter harder. As the engine works at least a quarter harder, so the engine parts and cooling system have to work at least a quarter harder. Some of this extra strain can be taken up with skilful engine designs and higher quality parts, but there’s a limit to this.

The latest generation of diesel engines, termed common-rail diesels, are the most efficient diesel engines ever made, and when fitted to a car offer good levels of power and acceleration comparable to petrol engines.

However, many turbocharged common-rail diesel engines work harder than any other diesels in history. No matter how solidly they are made, we do not believe that they will last as long as their less hard-working cousins of old.
France is the world centre for small diesel engines. Diesels account for most of the new cars sold in France and in Europe generally.

There is already plenty of evidence of problems with the new generation of European common rail diesel engines, even when relatively new.  However, there are far worse problems down the track, after the vehicles leave warranty. European diesel engines (like their petrol siblings) are designed to be used in one vehicle for a fixed period of time and then disposed of.  They are computer controlled and everything from the high tech fuel pumps to the exhaust system is designed to work together as one whole unit.  Without the computer and the sensors in the exhaust pipe, the diesel will not run properly.

The European carmakers know this of course – in five or ten years’ time when their diesel becomes uneconomic to fix or will no longer pass emissions checks, they’ll be waiting around to sell you a whole new vehicle. The rest of the car will probably be junk.

Peugeot diesels use a silicon carbide honeycomb filter that absorbs pollution, then every 500km or so the filter system oxidizes the absorbed pollutants by injecting a small amount of fuel and a rare-earth-derived additive called Eolys to superheat the exhaust and burn off the soot left behind by burning diesel.

Very clever no doubt, and we believe Peugeot’s claim that the system eliminates 95% of pollution – when new. However, given Peugeot’s woeful reputation for reliability even with existing technology, hands up everyone who thinks this system will still be working reliably and economically in ten years’ time? Thought not.

Compare this to the modern Japanese petrol engine: it’s worth remembering that the basic Toyota Corolla petrol engine is not all that different to the models that they were making twenty years ago; it’s just somewhat more complex and somewhat more efficient. It’s proven, durable technology that is cheap to buy, cheap to service, cheap to fix, and if the car is too old to make engine repair economic, you can get a good, cheap petrol engine from just about any wrecker.

What about Japanese diesel engines? The older, smaller diesel engines by Mazda & Toyota were fairly dreadful. Nissan has always been a market leader, until recently, when some new high tech diesels started giving grief at a young age. Ditto Isuzu.

New European diesels require a very clean type of diesel fuel, but this new diesel fuel often wrecks the diesel pump on older Japanese models.

Outside of Europe, sales of diesel vehicles were expected to fall, but the opposite happened as fuel prices rose.

We’d advise you to avoid diesels altogether unless your needs can only really be met by having a diesel engine. If you must have a diesel, buy new or with caution, perhaps great caution, and for God’s sake have it checked out by a diesel mechanic before you pay over any money.

yellowfishs

爱国爱港 发表于 2012-6-12 21:41
http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/diesels

Diesels often seem cheaper because the buyer is hypno ...

非常好的意见，谢谢

霍景亮

jeetkuendo 发表于 2012-6-11 21:21
JT，柴油牧马人好吗？谁能详细说说？因为要买suv，最近看上2012 wrangler了如果基本当家用是不是有人骂有病 ...

挺好的 我朋友刚买了个12年的，两门的，挺嗨

hayne

x5小毛病比RX略多，后期保养麻烦一点，rx保养费用较便宜；
rx更保值；
X5多有吃胎的小毛病，电池寿命两个差不多。

另X5的操控动力比RX那不是强一点点，自己开X5家用RX!

永远潜水

lexus工艺质量比bmw好，这两个要选还是rx吧，bm内饰时间长一点会各种不严各种坏

kobemvp

是我，我选X5。 对LEXUS的SUV无爱。

lz

开了rx400h之后我基本都不怎么碰bmw 330了，感觉完全不一样，安静舒适，震动少，长途8个油市区9个油，2吨出头的SUV，够满足了

爱国爱港

Bowen@CCS_Audi 发表于 2012-6-17 19:02
Dog and Lemon is talking rubbish. I have sold hundreds of diesel cars to my customers. They absolute ...

The reason is all European diesels you sold are new or near new and that's why all your customers love them.

Dog and Lemon Guide talks about value for money and long term reliability. Dog and Lemon Guide advises suit money tight motorists.

Of cos you would hate Dog and Lemon Guide because it challenges all European cars. If everyone listen to the Dog and Lemon Guide, all businesses that involve European cars will gone out of business and you would be unemployed.