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[生活] 听关于伊斯兰教的辩论有感:和六岁女孩结婚,按今天的标准是pedophile [复制链接]

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匿名  发表于 2015-1-15 23:45:41 |倒序浏览 微信分享
本帖最后由 匿名 于 2015-1-16 19:13 编辑

刚才在网上听关于伊斯兰教的辩论,才知道他们的先知的九位妻子中,有一位结婚时才六岁,同床时也才九岁。

我是两个女儿的妈妈,小女儿今年快九岁。

除了震惊,愤怒,我感到恶心。

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沙发
发表于 2015-1-15 23:51:36 |只看该作者 微信分享


我看这里好几个男的都不觉得恶心。    还觉得特兴奋呢吧
燃烧吧~~! 我的帖子!!!

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匿名
板凳
匿名  发表于 2015-1-15 23:55:24 微信分享
本帖最后由 匿名 于 2015-1-15 23:58 编辑

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa= ... qcw&bvm=bv.83640239,d.dGc

辩论中提到的年龄是6岁,我上网查到的是订婚七岁,同床时九岁。

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至尊荣耀 最强王者 永恒钻石 尊贵铂金 元老勋章 新时政 游戏勋章 畅游勋章 哈卡一族 10周年纪念 20周年纪念 2018年度金ID 平安如意勋章

地板
发表于 2015-1-16 00:00:05 |只看该作者 微信分享
现在看确实挺变态,但不要忘了,一千多年前人类平均寿命20多。

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 00:10:57 微信分享
吃草的狮子 发表于 2015-1-16 00:00
现在看确实挺变态,但不要忘了,一千多年前人类平均寿命20多。

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-worldlook-659213-1.shtml

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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 00:27:51 微信分享
本帖最后由 匿名 于 2015-1-16 00:33 编辑

Syrian conflict: Untold misery of child brides
Former child bride: Wedding was 'saddest day of my life'



There is an alarming rise in the number of Syrian refugee girls in Jordan being forced into early marriages, according to the new figures from the United Nations.

As Orla Guerin reports from Zaatari refugee camp, poverty is forcing some families to effectively sell their daughters to much older men, and there is now an organised trade in young girls.


In a prefabricated cabin in the sprawling camp, a girl, 13, sat on the floor engulfed by a frilly white dress, and a hooded silk cape.


She was surrounded by children, not much younger than her, clapping and singing a nursery rhyme.


What looked like a game of dressing-up was in fact her wedding reception. Her Mother looked on from a distance and wept - for her war torn homeland, and perhaps for her daughter. She asked us not to give their names.


No choice


Earlier, at a makeshift beauty salon, a fellow Syrian refugee curled the girl's hair and layered make-up on her face - the finishing touches to the end of a childhood.



Alaa, a 14-year-old resident of the Zaatari camp, married her cousin and is now pregnant and worried


The bride told me her 25-year-old husband had been chosen by her family and she had never seen him before. She appeared relaxed, and said she was happy to be getting married. The reality is she had no choice.


Almost one third ( 32% ) of refugee marriages in Jordan involve a girl under 18, according to the latest figures from Unicef. This refers to registered marriages, so the actual figure may be much higher. The rate of child marriage in Syria before the war was 13%.


daughters, but the UN says most are driven by poverty.


City of the dispossessed


"The longer the crisis in Syria lasts, the more we will see refugee families using this as a coping mechanism," said Michele Servadei, deputy Jordan representative for Unicef. "The vast majority of these cases are child abuse, even if the parents are giving their permission."




Classes are held outside the clinic in the camp to spare young girls from adult burdens



In Zaatari camp - a city of the dispossessed sprouting in the desert - some are married before they reach their teens.


Jordanian midwife Mounira Shaban, known in the camp as "Mama Mounira", was invited to the wedding of a 12-year old girl


"I felt like I wanted to cry," she said. "I felt like she was my daughter. I think this is violence. It's a shame. If a girl is 18 or over they think she is old and will not marry."







Girl married at 15, who is getting a divorce: 'I was just dreaming of the wedding dress'


Mounira tries to spare oung girls from adult burdens. At her clinic she lectures refugees, sitting on benches in the sand, about the problems faced by young brides.


They don't know how to cook," she said, "and they don't know how to read and write.


They have to take care of their husbands, when they want to go outside and play. Many of them get divorced."


That is what is ahead for a slender 17-year-old we met who did not want to be identified. She was married at 15 and has a treasured baby girl.


'Not scared of divorce'

The two-month old wriggled in her arms, snug in a pink and white baby-grow, and her mother's love. But her husband is threatening to take the child away, as the price of her freedom.


Zaatari is a camp is an expanse of the dispossessed, a place of interrupted lives


Not far from the camp in the city of Mafraq there is an organised trade in young girls, according to Syrian refugees and local aid workers

I am not scared of divorce. I know I will start a new life, but I am scared that my daughter will be taken from me," she said. "I will die without her. A mother's heart burns if her child is taken from her."






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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 00:45:07 微信分享
和九岁的女孩?

我想听听穆斯林的回答。

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8#分享本帖地址
发表于 2015-1-16 10:32:26 来自手机 |只看该作者 微信分享
中国古代也是跟早结婚的(童养媳),不过圆房通常是15岁以后,及笄之年,成年了。

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9#分享本帖地址
发表于 2015-1-16 12:12:07 来自手机 |只看该作者 微信分享
我觉得不应该跨越时代忽略背景,单独抽个问题来断章取义,例如古代战乱饥荒还人吃人啦,你以为吃人的那位在国泰民安时期愿意去吃人?

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 12:33:56 微信分享
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 12:12
我觉得不应该跨越时代忽略背景,单独抽个问题来断章取义,例如古代战乱饥荒还人吃人啦,你以为吃人的那位在 ...

在阿富汗和也门,即使在今天,强迫小女孩嫁给老男人的事情还习以为常,令人震惊。这又怎么解释!

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 12:41:51 微信分享
Nowhere Does Islam Excuse Child Brides06/18/2014 5:59 am EDT


A friend of mine sent me a a Daily Beast piece that said, "A new law would approve marriage to girls as young as nine in a bid to appease the nation's conservatives ahead of parliamentary elections in the Iraqi parliament in the last days before the April 30 election." and asked what I think about it as a Muslim mother from Turkey who has a beautiful daughter!


"What in the God's green earth are you talking about!... I started. My answer is simple: Both trying to make a new law to let girls marry as young as nine and claim that it's Islamic are not really acceptable. You cannot relate that wrongdoing with a religion! Underage marriages are child abuse and "abuse" doesn't have any religion or nationality.

However, this month's plan by Iraqi parliamentarians to legalize underage marriage at ninefollows the Pakistan Islamic Council's demand last month that Pakistan abolish all legal restrictions on child marriage, the revelation that Syrian refugee girls are being sold into marriage against their will and the increased pressure in many African countries to ease the restrictions on selling child brides.


Child marriage, defined as a formal marriage or informal union before age 18, is catastrophic for most girls. The most common reasons for child marriage are poverty, lack of education, religious myths, gender inequality in society, insufficient laws or belief of a culture that a girl would be safer once married.


A report from the UN's Children Fund (UNICEF) shows that a great number of adolescents give birth in developing countries, and they are mainly girls with little or no education from low-income households in rural areas. Also, a UNFPA survey that took place in 2010, in 54 of the world's poorest countries, 36.4 million women between the ages of 20 and 24 reported having given birth before they were 18. Bangladesh, Chad, Guinea, Mali, Mozambique and Niger are countries where early marriage is the most common.


Nowadays, Islam is the major religion in most of those countries, thus one area of Islamic law that has been subject to heavy criticism. Many of them believe that Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.) is the originator of this repugnant practice because some men use his marriage to Aisha (R.A.) as an excuse to marry girls at young ages and claim that they do it to honor Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.)'s sunnah because it is known that his sunnah's are the primary source of law, ethics and behavior Muslims should follow besides the laws of the Koran. Yet again, these men purposely misapprehended Prophet Muhammad's sunnah of marriage.

The best translation for Sunnah can be "a normative behavior of the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.)." He did marry nine times, and except Aisha (R.A.), all of his wives were previously married (either divorcees or widows) and they were quite old. His first wife, Khadijah (R.A.), was 15 years older: He was 25, she was 40 when they got married. Their marriage lasted for over 25 years by the time she passed away. Also, their marriage was monogamous, despite the regularity of polygamy at that time. Thus this marriage should also be considered as a standard of sunnah marriage because this marriage was the longest for the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.).


Also, marriage and family have a very important place in Islam. In the Koran 30:21, marriage is described as combination of peace, comfort, tranquility and fulfillment of a natural instinct. The text explains that an important purpose of marriage is to achieve psychological, emotional, and spiritual companionship. So to accomplish this type of companionship level, parties should be equal in a way of access to marriage and compatible in marriage. Thus, child marriages cannot be considered as Islamic because to perform the marriage according to Islamic principles, both parties should reach the age of maturity and physically, emotionally, and mentally to be able to consent independently. Islam clearly insists that marrying off a girl without her consent is not acceptable.


Maybe marriages at an early age are meant to protect girls' lives, yet instead they ruin their lives. Not only is it a violation of human rights and keeps girls from receiving an education, but is also a significant factor in long-term health complications. Underage brides are very vulnerable and they can suffer irreparable damage, if not death, after bearing children when their bodies are not fully prepared for pregnancy. UN statisticsshow:
[size=15.1999998092651px]

"Complications from pregnancy and childbirth are the leading causes of death for girls ages 15-19 in developing countries. Of the 16 million adolescent girls who give birth every year, about 90 percent are already married. UNICEF estimates that some 50,000 die, almost all in low- and middle-income countries. Stillbirths and newborn deaths are 50 percent higher among mothers under the age of 20 than in women who get pregnant in their 20s."




Early age marriages in Turkey

Even though child marriage is illegal in Turkey, it is a common practice in rural areas. When 33-year-old Berivan Elif Kılıç was officially elected mayor last week as a survivor of a child marriage, early marriages have become an issue of a discussion in Turkey. Kılıç said her mother had been married off at a similar age, so she did not think twice about having Berivan marry at 15. "Nobody is questioning why girls are being forced to marry at such a young age," she said. Ms.Kılıç wasn't the first child bride in Turkey and unfortunately, she will not be the last.

According to the Strategic Research Organization (USAK), child marriages in Turkeyconstitute 14 percent of all marriages. A study of Turkish marriage practices conducted by Hacettepe University in 2011 reveals that the issue of child brides may be more prevalent in Turkey than one might think. The study indicates that almost 40 percent of Turkish women between 15 and 49 years of age were married by their 18th birthday. This new tendency of a disproportionally higher number of underage girls is very disturbing especially when "there is an increase of 94.2% in application to courts by families to get marriage permit," according to Professor Dr. Nazan Moroglu, president of the Turkish Federation of University Women. Dr. Moroglu indicates "the problem is not the law itself but its lack of implementation."

Actually, early marriage has been prohibited in Turkey since 1926. According to the Turkish Civil Code, a person may marry at age 17 with parental consent and at age 16 under special circumstances with court approval. The incidence of marriages of 16 and 17-year-old girls culturally is acceptable. According to the information from Dr. Erhan Tunç, an assistant professor at Gaziantep University, one in three marriages in Turkey involves at least one party under 18 years old. His research also puts forward that 82% of child brides in Turkey are illiterate. Also, in many cases girls get married while still only 11 to 14 years old to older adult men or widowers.

Flexibility in legislation on prohibition of child marriage, and poor implementation of existing laws are the main barriers for changing the mentality that doesn't distinguish child marriage as wrongdoing. Nevertheless, there are uplifting religious voices against child marriage recently in Turkey. In November 2013, the head of Turkey's Islamic Religious Affairs, Mehmet Görmez, condemned "parents who forcefully marry off underage girls to older men, without girls' consent, before they have not gained the maturity for being a wife and mother as 'ruthless'." He added that, "In Hanafi Madhab minimum age for marriage is 17. Whoever claims an argument or justification [for child brides] in any Islamic source, does injustice both to religion and that girl child. Thus it is all our responsibility to take all these information [historical facts] again and share them with society anew."

Nowadays, a faithful Muslim man should not think of getting married to an under aged girl with an excuse of 'honoring sunnah' because early aged marriages harm the name of the religion. Also, it would be a big mistake to universalize a particular action of the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.) without analyzing the circumstances of his era. Also, to distinguish between culture and religion is a big challenge. Thus the minimum age decreed in marriage laws in the USA are dependent on cultural background in some way, and they change remarkably from state to state. For instance, in New Hampshire and Massachusetts, individuals can get married with parental consent at the young ages of 13 and 12, respectively.

Underage marriages occur not because Islam allows them to, but they occur because women are powerless to stop them and men allow the marriages to take place. In many communities, the fathers, village chiefs, and religious leaders, who have the privilege to make these decisions, are males. Thus empowering girls through education is a must to stop child marriages. Helping girls become aware of their rights by including gender equality in school curricula is crucial yet not only do girls need to be educated, but also men of the societies have to be educated to change their mindset. Governments, NGOs, local authorities, teachers, school directors, doctors, nurses and religious leaders have to work together to make it happen. At the local level, mutual efforts should be performed with some prominent members of community. Child marriages are a form of modern day slavery, and they have to end. Justice should prevail and Islam is a religion for peace not for violations of human rights.


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12#分享本帖地址
发表于 2015-1-16 12:47:39 |只看该作者 微信分享
匿名者 发表于 2015-1-16 12:33
在阿富汗和也门,即使在今天,强迫小女孩嫁给老男人的事情还习以为常,令人震惊。这又怎么解释! ...

每个人,每个民族,每个宗教, 都由于自身发展而形成一套独特的价值观, 价值观本身并无是非对错, 对错的产生只是因为加入了参照物, 客观上说, 以西方现代价值观为主体, 去看“他们“, 自然是错, 同理, 以“他们”为主体看西方世界, 同样是无法接受的, 这就是矛盾的本源.

例如“强迫小女孩嫁给老男人的事情还习以为常”,我们看来确实“令人震惊“, 同样地在“他们”的世界, 看待我们街上女人穿得摊胸露背, 更加令他们震惊, 那你认为谁是绝对意义上的正确?

不能跳出自我的先入为主,惯性地以己度人,确实很多事都理解不了.
唯識所變, 唯心所現,三界唯識, 萬法唯心.

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13#分享本帖地址
发表于 2015-1-16 12:58:16 |只看该作者 微信分享
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 12:47
每个人,每个民族,每个宗教, 都由于自身发展而形成一套独特的价值观, 价值观本身并无是非对错, 对错 ...

同意你的见解,很成熟的换位思考的。
天天都想离开 却不知到哪里才能换骨脱胎

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匿名
14#分享本帖地址
匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 12:59:20 微信分享
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 12:47
每个人,每个民族,每个宗教, 都由于自身发展而形成一套独特的价值观, 价值观本身并无是非对错, 对错 ...

宗教信仰,民族习惯可以不同,但人性本质应该是一样的。

如果你有个六岁的女儿,或许你的观点可以更感性些。

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15#分享本帖地址
发表于 2015-1-16 13:00:45 来自手机 |只看该作者 微信分享
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 12:47
每个人,每个民族,每个宗教, 都由于自身发展而形成一套独特的价值观, 价值观本身并无是非对错, 对错 ...

支持!         字数布丁

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16#分享本帖地址
发表于 2015-1-16 13:02:03 |只看该作者 微信分享
客观理性的观点比感性的观点好,因为它不是从“我”出发。
天天都想离开 却不知到哪里才能换骨脱胎

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:06:20 微信分享
gravel 发表于 2015-1-16 13:02
客观理性的观点比感性的观点好,因为它不是从“我”出发。

文明需要进步,宗教传统需要以尊重人性为基础。
我所说的感性,指的是humanity。

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18#分享本帖地址
发表于 2015-1-16 13:10:38 |只看该作者 微信分享
匿名者 发表于 2015-1-16 12:59
宗教信仰,民族习惯可以不同,但人性本质应该是一样的。

如果你有个六岁的女儿,或许你的观点可以更感性 ...

谈到“人性本质”,就是个非常复杂的话题了, 不是三言两语说得完, 简单来说, 我同意"人性本质是一样的“, 但问题是在物欲社会, 又有多少人能”明心见性“寻回真正的自我, 和众人一致的”人性本质“呢?, 绝大多数人被物欲埋没了本质, 表现出来的只是个人,民族因为生存和发展所产生的”特质“而已.

而这特质慢慢脱离人性本质, 所以才有了我们认为的各样荒唐事情。产生各种迷惑,  这克不是凭感性就能看清楚的.

唯識所變, 唯心所現,三界唯識, 萬法唯心.

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:14:45 微信分享
本帖最后由 匿名 于 2015-1-16 13:16 编辑
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 13:10
谈到“人性本质”,就是个非常复杂的话题了, 不是三言两语说得完, 简单来说, 我同意"人性本质是一样的 ...

You are effectively saying that its justified to rape a young gir.  [size=14.3999996185303px]Am I right? Hope I am wrong.  

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发表于 2015-1-16 13:19:23 |只看该作者 微信分享
匿名者 发表于 2015-1-16 13:14
You are effectively saying that its justified to rape a young gir.  Am I right? Hope I am wrong.

I believe you totally have no idea what my point is . Try to go back and read again please.
唯識所變, 唯心所現,三界唯識, 萬法唯心.

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:20:49 微信分享
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 13:19
I believe you totally have no idea what my point is . Try to go back and read again please.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQlX-utp7JA

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发表于 2015-1-16 13:21:12 |只看该作者 微信分享
匿名者 发表于 2015-1-16 13:06
文明需要进步,宗教传统需要以尊重人性为基础。
我所说的感性,指的是humanity。

我噗嗤一声笑出声来。什么是人性?善?恶?无善无恶?既善又恶?谁来定义?还是不是价值观。-建议读物 Sam Harris the Moral landscape 在此就省略上万字。

天天都想离开 却不知到哪里才能换骨脱胎

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:25:27 微信分享
gravel 发表于 2015-1-16 13:21
我噗嗤一声笑出声来。什么是人性?善?恶?无善无恶?既善又恶?谁来定义?还是不是价值观。-建议读物 Sa ...

https://www.youtube.com/results? ... nds+chirld+marriage

建议看看,如果这些纪录片中的问题根本无所谓,我们的讨论就没有任何继续下去的意义了。谢谢。

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发表于 2015-1-16 13:28:55 |只看该作者 微信分享
匿名者 发表于 2015-1-16 13:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQlX-utp7JA

我也看过很多纪录片, 说现代以美国为首的西方国家近二十年来在中东各个战争杀了不少平民, 当中很多是妇女小孩, 那我可以下定义说美国和西方有问题吗?
唯識所變, 唯心所現,三界唯識, 萬法唯心.

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:30:40 微信分享
本帖最后由 匿名 于 2015-1-16 13:40 编辑

[size=21.6000003814697px]八岁的也门新娘嫁给40岁的男人,新婚之夜死于性伤害



8-year-old Yemeni Child Bride Dies on Wedding Night!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWNNFXWHmDU

Published on Sep 12, 2013

Recommended Video: Allah of the Quran is the Greatest Deceiver http://youtu.be/psvUZ_B2zIA

Comments: Gulf News' denial is rejected by the Journalist concerned. Mohammad Radman, the freelance journalist from the Yemeni province who broke the story, insists the girl's neighbors told him she was "dead and buried."

"They are willing to give their testimony on this issue," he told Gulf News, adding: "I think the officials are trying to bury the story."

Moreover, two Meedi residents contacted by Reuters confirmed the incident and said tribal chiefs had tried to cover up the incident when the news broke, warning a local journalist against covering the story.

Introduction:
8-year-old Yemeni child dies at hands of 40-year-old husband on wedding night.
Al Nahar, Lebanon, has reported that an eight year old child bride died in Yemen on her wedding night after suffering internal injuries due to sexual trauma. Human rights organizations are calling for the arrest of her husband who was five times her age.
The death occurred in the tribal area of Hardh in northwestern Yemen, which borders Saudi Arabia. This brings even more attention to the already existing issue of forced child marriages in the Middle Eastern region.
It is reported that over a quarter of Yemen's young girls are married before the age of 15. Not only do they lose access to health and education, these child brides are commonly subjected to physical, emotional and sexual violence in their forced marriage.
One of the main issues is that there is currently no consistent established definition of a "child" that has been agreed upon worldwide. This leaves various interpretations within countries and little protection for those who are affected.





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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:34:55 微信分享
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 13:28
我也看过很多纪录片, 说现代以美国为首的西方国家近二十年来在中东各个战争杀了不少平民, 当中很多是妇 ...



你提到的在战争中杀害平民,包括妇女小孩,绝对是错的,毫无疑问。这还用问吗?

[size=14.3999996185303px]我们谈论的是以婚姻为名强奸少女的问题。请不要转移话题。

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发表于 2015-1-16 13:40:09 |只看该作者 微信分享
匿名者 发表于 2015-1-16 13:34
你提到的在战争中杀害平民,包括妇女小孩,绝对是错的,毫无疑问。这还用问吗?

我们谈论的是以婚姻为 ...

那如果这事发生在今天的世俗国家, 当然是违法的, 但如果在伊斯兰世界, 我想应该去问问他们的人,外人无权批判。

我之前所指的是, 不应该片面的事件, 来批判整个体系.
唯識所變, 唯心所現,三界唯識, 萬法唯心.

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发表于 2015-1-16 13:44:40 |只看该作者 微信分享
匿名者 发表于 2015-1-16 13:34
你提到的在战争中杀害平民,包括妇女小孩,绝对是错的,毫无疑问。这还用问吗?

我们谈论的是以婚姻为 ...

不对吧。题目是-听关于伊斯兰教的辩论有感:和六岁女孩结婚,按今天的标准是强奸犯

当时当地的标准应该正常吧不然也不肯能当先知了

每个民族宗教的价值观的产生和发展都是由它经历的历史,人文和地理环境决定的,它都是有客观因素造成的。它本身是没有所谓对与错善与恶的,就好像动物的进化是由环境决定一样的概念。用现在此时此地的“价值观”去审视一下非当时当地的东西当然有不符之处啦。
天天都想离开 却不知到哪里才能换骨脱胎

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:45:13 微信分享
bintoo 发表于 2015-1-16 13:40
那如果这事发生在今天的世俗国家, 当然是违法的, 但如果在伊斯兰世界, 我想应该去问问他们的人,外人 ...

正因为有这个“体系”做借口,所以在很多穆斯林国家,pedophile可以用婚姻作掩护,随意强奸小女孩
It needs to be stoped!
End of our discussion.
Thank you.

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匿名
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匿名  发表于 2015-1-16 13:49:44 微信分享
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